SSDP and Multicast - Useful?

For help and support with PS3 Media Server in general
Forum rules
Please make sure you follow the Problem Reporting Guidelines before posting if you want a reply.

SSDP and Multicast - Useful?

Postby Dan » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:17 pm

Hi,

Dan wrote:
Paaki wrote:First enable SSDP from windows services. Use proper network interface found in ps3ms "general configuration".


I had SSDP set to Automatic for awhile and notice no difference than when it was set to Disable. I currently have SSDP disabled and have zero problems connecting to the PS3. So, I wonder, does SSDP really make a difference?

And...

meskibob wrote:Looks like that router has an option called "mcastfilter", which will discard multicast traffic when enabled, so make sure it's disabled.

I have "Filter Multicast" enabled in my router's configuration and I have no issues connecting to the PS3.

Are both SSDP and Multicast something that only should be tinkered with if you have problems connecting? I have yet to experience either one serve a purpose, or make any difference. That is, other than generating useless noise on the network and sucking up cycles.

Thanks.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
User avatar
Dan
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:22 pm

Re: SSDP and Multicast - Useful?

Postby meskibob » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:24 am

No comments on SSDP...
But the PS3 uses an M-Search request to identify itself to the network when you turn it on or do the "Search for media servers". If PMS is running and then you turn on the PS3 while multicast requests are blocked through the router, PMS won't show up on the PS3 until PMS sends out its own alive notice through UPnP (this is done quite a bit when PMS is started, but intervals every three minutes after a little while). So is multicast absolutely required to connect PMS to the PS3? No, but it helps get PMS to show up faster on the XMB.

Now it's important to note that some routers strictly apply the multicast settings to only WAN traffic, while others apply to both WAN and LAN. But usually router manuals don't detail which is the case for the specific router, so the only way to really know is to test by toggling the setting.
I provide NO application support via PM or email, so please post your question to the forum per the Forum Rules.
meskibob
Moderator
 
Posts: 4789
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:11 pm

Re: SSDP and Multicast - Useful?

Postby Dan » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:54 pm

meskibob wrote:No comments on SSDP...

Then I take it that you are familiar with some of the security risks associated with having SSDP enabled, which, for security reasons, I won't describe in any detail here. I'll only add that I have both "SSDP Discovery Service" and "Universal Plug and Play Device Host" services disabled and having done so, I see no apparent side affects between PMS connecting to a PS3. My main concern with PMS is the huge amount of time it takes gargling the database, before spitting out some data to the PS3 in a timely manor, but that is a problem with PMS, not the initial connection.

meskibob wrote:But the PS3 uses an M-Search request to identify itself to the network when you turn it on or do the "Search for media servers". If PMS is running and then you turn on the PS3 while multicast requests are blocked through the router, PMS won't show up on the PS3 until PMS sends out its own alive notice through UPnP (this is done quite a bit when PMS is started, but intervals every three minutes after a little while). So is multicast absolutely required to connect PMS to the PS3? No, but it helps get PMS to show up faster on the XMB.

I decided to test this. With Multicast Filtering enabled in the router and PMS still connected to the PS3, I turned off the PS3. I waited 4 minutes and turned the PS3 back on. I then immediately went to the video section of the XMB and the PMS icon was there, as well as being able to play the first video file. I did this twice with the same results. Perhaps this is due to PMS not having any clue that during those 4 minutes the PS3 had completely disappeared (as you described in the link you provided me earlier and through my own independent tests).

Or, that it takes longer than 4 minutes for it to happen. I'm going out to dinner tonight, that should kill a couple of hours, I'll leave the PS3 off the entire time and when I return I'll test this again and report my findings.

meskibob wrote:Now it's important to note that some routers strictly apply the multicast settings to only WAN traffic, while others apply to both WAN and LAN. But usually router manuals don't detail which is the case for the specific router, so the only way to really know is to test by toggling the setting.

The help information in my router only says, "Enable this option if you do not wish to receive multicast traffic that is sometime sent by your ISP." Perhaps when I return home tonight and do the test, the only thing it will show is that it's blocking WAN traffic (as the above help information sorta implies). So, in my case that would mean I would want Multicast Filtering enabled.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
User avatar
Dan
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:22 pm

Re: SSDP and Multicast - Useful?

Postby Dan » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:14 am

Dan wrote:Or, that it takes longer than 4 minutes for it to happen. I'm going out to dinner tonight, that should kill a couple of hours, I'll leave the PS3 off the entire time and when I return I'll test this again and report my findings.

After 8½ hours in standby, I pressed the PS3 button to reboot the PS3. Moved over one in the XMB to the Video column and the PMS icon was instantly there. Entered and played the first video that appeared as if no time had passed.

But, not being satisfied with just a standby test. I then put the PS3 back into standby, reached around the back and flipped the main power switch in the back to off. I left the PS3 off for 10 minutes, that should be more than enough time to discharge enough of the main PCB. Then flipped the main back on, rebooted the PS3 and as soon as it was ready I went directly to the Video column in the XMB and the PMS icon was instantly there. Entered and again played the first video that appeared without issue.

It then occurred to me, previously when you rebooted the PS3, let alone if you turned the main power off, the PS3 would have lost the connection and the PMS icon wouldn't have been there. Either by using the media server search on the PS3 or tricking PMS to restart the server, would have brought it quickly back. Of course, PMS would have thrown another hemorrhoid over the database, and that meant multiple DLNA 2006 errors on the PS3, as it once again gave up waiting for PMS. I wonder, besides all the other changes, if Sony made media server improvements in firmware v3.0?

I believe these two tests showed that connecting to the PS3 has improved, not gotten worse with the latest v3.0 firmware. Maybe it's worse for those that use uPnP and SSDP to connect a PS3? Neither are required or wanted here, and connections take place instantly. Of course, YMMV.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
User avatar
Dan
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:22 pm

Re: SSDP and Multicast - Useful?

Postby meskibob » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:17 pm

Dan wrote:But, not being satisfied with just a standby test. I then put the PS3 back into standby, reached around the back and flipped the main power switch in the back to off. I left the PS3 off for 10 minutes, that should be more than enough time to discharge enough of the main PCB. Then flipped the main back on, rebooted the PS3 and as soon as it was ready I went directly to the Video column in the XMB and the PMS icon was instantly there. Entered and again played the first video that appeared without issue.
What this says to me is that your router is actually doing what it says in the manual in that the multicast setting is only being applied to WAN traffic. Since the M-Search isn't being blocked in the L2 traffic, it makes sense that PMS would receive it when the PS3 is booted up, and subsequently it shows up right away independent of when you turned the PS3 on/off.
I provide NO application support via PM or email, so please post your question to the forum per the Forum Rules.
meskibob
Moderator
 
Posts: 4789
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:11 pm

Re: SSDP and Multicast - Useful?

Postby Dan » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:00 pm

meskibob wrote:What this says to me is that your router is actually doing what it says in the manual in that the multicast setting is only being applied to WAN traffic. Since the M-Search isn't being blocked in the L2 traffic, it makes sense that PMS would receive it when the PS3 is booted up, and subsequently it shows up right away independent of when you turned the PS3 on/off.

I agree, that is what the help information implies and does seem to be working that way. But, I think it's also worth noting that with previous versions of the PS3 firmware it didn't connect right away after the PS3 was rebooted. While I didn't know there was a 3 minute interval, I only knew that the connection had to be persuaded. This was done by either using the Media Server search in the PS3 or that PMS had to be tricked into restarting it's server. It didn't matter which way, because the database got uppity and I had to wait 11 minutes for it to calm down and begin sending data back to the PS3. That didn't happen with this morning's tests and the v3.0 firmware. The connection was immediate and more importantly, the PMS database didn't need to be re-scanned again. Thus, no DLNA 2006 errors and no 11 minute wait after rebooting the PS3.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
User avatar
Dan
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:22 pm


Return to General Help and Support

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests