Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

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Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby rozel » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:42 am

Hi

I have been using PS3MS now for some time and am thrilled with it. Movies recorded with DD, DTS etc playback beautifully through my HTS, Via my PS3.

Now I would like to go one step further.

Unfortunately my Receiver's amp does not have HDMI sockets just analogue 7.1 inputs into which I can playback 7.1 bitstream signals via my Panasonic DVD Player, my SACD Player and my DVD-A Player. In this way through these pieces of euipment, I can enjoy the newer and lossless HD soundtracks as in the title of my post, by switching my Receiver to "multichannel" mode. In this way the equipment controls the signals fed to the Receiver and if I may say so, they do a fantastic job at it!

As the PS3 does not have these output sockets, I am stuck with connecting the sound from the PS3 to my Receiver via Optical cable (Toslink) and/or coaxial - I forget the method, but either way, this method of connection does not transmit the new HD signals.

I have found a way to burn DVD-9's utilising the AVCHD, particularly the PS3AVCHD variety.

My questions are therefore: -

1. Can and do .mkv files contain these HD soundtracks? and (for the future in my case, if I subsequently get a Receiver/amp with HDMI sockets) can they be streamed via PS3MS, like vanilla DTS/DD ?

2. If so, and if I can source these files I would like to burn them to a DVD-9 in AVCHD format but do not know how to do this. Can this be acheived through TsmuxeR ? Will TsmuxeR allow .mkv files to be added?

I basically do not want to change my Receiver at the moment, but want to playback as much stuff as there is out there which has the HD soundtracks.

Would appreciate any help and advice please. I am considering adding a MediaPC to my HTS but for now funds do not permit this.

TIA

roz
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby rozel » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:03 pm

Even though this may sound a noob question, could someone help me with answers to these questions please?

So far I have not come across any .mkv files containing HD soundtracks and am unsure after searching on here whether in any event, PS3MS can stream these tracks right now.

Cheers
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby meskibob » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:23 pm

1) I believe people have Blu-ray rips that have the HD tracks, and I don't think there's any limitation within the matroska container that doesn't allow for these kind of tracks. But, for the latter part of this question,
a) The PS3 only supports HD audio (DTS-HD MA,Dolby TrueHD, etc) for the hardware Blu-ray player, and it has to convert it to LPCM before it can pass it to the receiver via HDMI. It can't bitstream the HD Audio to the receiver, especially over Toslink. Take a look through the following AVforums thread for a great discussion as to the reasons why (it does get a little complex/technical, especially when it gets to comparing Player vs Receiver decoding with LPCM jitter): http://www.avforums.com/forums/ps3/9176 ... audio.html
b) The PS3 only supports upto DD and 5.1 LPCM (2ch LPCM at 1.5mbps for Toslink) for streamed media, so you're only going to get the core audio out of your HD sources.

2) Can't help you there, sorry.

Edit: corrected 2ch LPCM statement...
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby rozel » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:40 pm

That is very helpful.

I am very unclear though regarding Bitstreamed and LPCM ones. Basically I would like to burn DVD-9 rips of Blu-ray discs containing HD soundtracks if it is possible for the PS3 to play them, or alternatively play then unburned from say an external drive.

So assuming I cannot stream these :( is it possible to get HD results sounds-wise via a burned DVD-9 and or playing them from an external drive?

Your further help would be appreciated as I'm thinking about buying an expensive HDMI to 7.1 switch from Octava to feed my non-HDMI equipped amp - do you think this is the way to go?

Regards

roz
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby meskibob » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:37 pm

rozel wrote:That is very helpful.

I am very unclear though regarding Bitstreamed and LPCM ones. Basically I would like to burn DVD-9 rips of Blu-ray discs containing HD soundtracks if it is possible for the PS3 to play them, or alternatively play then unburned from say an external drive.

So assuming I cannot stream these :( is it possible to get HD results sounds-wise via a burned DVD-9 and or playing them from an external drive?
I think I understand you now, but to confirm...
Your PS3/Blu-ray player cannot play HD audio since you can't connect to your receiver through HDMI. To get around this, you want to rip your Blu-rays, take out the main video and HD audio, and then burn them on DVD-9 DVD's. Then these can be played on one of your DVD players capable of bitstreaming the HD audio to your current amp. That sound right...?
If so, then this is well outside the realm of what PMS does, and I'm not sure if TSmuxer (standalone) will do what you're looking for. I would also say you should just bite the bullet and get the HDMI receiver (Denon and Onkyo do pretty well in the $500-$600 range if you're worried about price)

The only way you're going to get a full 7.1 HD audio stream from the PS3 is from an actual Blu-ray or DVD disc and connecting to a 7.1 amp via HDMI. And even then, the receiver won't be doing any of the decoding. PMS will not be able to stream the full 7.1 audio till the PS3 allows it (maybe DLNA too)
rozel wrote:Your further help would be appreciated as I'm thinking about buying an expensive HDMI to 7.1 switch from Octava to feed my non-HDMI equipped amp - do you think this is the way to go?
Well, it should depend on whether or not they put a good DAC in there. I really have no experience with that or recommendations for it.
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby rozel » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:13 am

meskibob wrote:I think I understand you now, but to confirm...
Your PS3/Blu-ray player cannot play HD audio since you can't connect to your receiver through HDMI. To get around this, you want to rip your Blu-rays, take out the main video and HD audio, and then burn them on DVD-9 DVD's. Then these can be played on one of your DVD players capable of bitstreaming the HD audio to your current amp. That sound right...?


Absolutely - yes! :) :)

2 questions remain: -

1. what is the difference between Bitstreamed signals and LPCM ones?
2. Instead of burning a disc, can the PS3 play back HD sound tracks via an external drive?

Oh and the Octava switch - ohh yes it has a brilliant DAC - this thing was produced with the PS3 in mind and might be the way forward for me right now - it has received excellent reviews - I looked at a pre-production model at the end of last year but decided on a Panasonic DMP-BD55 Blu-ray player instead - now I want to take things further with the PS3 if at all possible. I know it cannot stream HD sounds from my PC, but I have to say it streams DTS tracks brilliantly using PS3MS - Just listened to the Valkyrie, a Blu-ray rip - marvellous! So I know the PS3 can turn out excellent sounds. So HD tracks via the PS3's Blu-ray player = yes, Streaming = no, AVCHD DVD-9's = yes but can it turn them out via an external drive (question 2 above).

Changing my Receiver is not an option - it's a Pioneer VSX-D2011 - and produces marvellous sounds, especially from it's 7.1 inputs in multichannel mode - no I could not bear to part with it.

TAIA

roz
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby meskibob » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:14 pm

rozel wrote:1. what is the difference between Bitstreamed signals and LPCM ones?
This gives a nice real-world analogy for what's going on: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... st10448682
rozel wrote:2. Instead of burning a disc, can the PS3 play back HD sound tracks via an external drive?
I'm pretty sure the HD audio is only supported from the optical drive, not from streamed media or media on its harddrive (or external drive).
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby rozel » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:30 pm

Thankyou for your latest reply - very much appreciated. If I understand everything now, LPCM are signals which eminate from players which are processed by the players' themselves and which the Receiver/Amp simply amplifies.

Bitstreamed signals are processed by the Receiver/Amp's processor and simply passed through to it by the Players.

My Receiver cannot accept Bitstreamed signals, just LPCM signals into it's 7.1 inputs.

I now get it - thank you. :) :) :)


meskibob wrote:I'm pretty sure the HD audio is only supported from the optical drive, not from streamed media or media on its harddrive.


Can others please confirm this please as it is a fundamental reason for me to buy the switch.

It's not that I'm doubting you but I need this definately confirming please.

Cheers

roz
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby enigma69 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:48 pm

Without HDMI getting Blu-ray 5.1 or 7.1 HD audio to your receiver is impossible
the PS3 can only export the audio over toslink or HDMI
and toslink is limited to 1.5 Mbps, the typical HD Audio LPCM track is 4.6 Mbps at the lowest, and it can reach 6.9 for a 24 bit 7.1 track.

I know ps3 media server support DTS/FLAC -> LPCM over HDMI and that works flawlessly for me, but the audio has to converted to flac first.
the audio rate it 4.6Mbps when I use it, so the comments about LPCM being limited to 1.5 are incorrect they only apply to toslink not HDMI
Since FLAC is lossless, it would be exactly the same quality as streaming the TrueHD or DTS MA track
I don't think it'll stream the TrueHD or DTS MA directly, though don't quote me on that as I haven't tried it.

BTW, the reason I am so sure about this is because I went through it. my old audio reciever didn't support HDMI when I bought the PS3 as a blu-ray player
when I found out I couldn't get HD audio without HDMI I upgraded to an Onkyo SR-606 with 4 HDMI ports.
Great receiver I love it and I would recommend it to anyone.
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Re: Playing DTS MasterHD & Dolby TrueHD Soundtracks

Postby meskibob » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:59 pm

enigma69 wrote:the audio rate it 4.6Mbps when I use it, so the comments about LPCM being limited to 1.5 are incorrect they only apply to toslink not HDMI
Thanks. Post has been edited.
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